The Delta Phenomenon by Willes Welder

Hi there,
I would be interested in your views on the "Delta Phenomenon- or the hidden order in all the markets" by Willes Welder and his delta-society.

Cosmoglobe

Do a search on "Market Matrix" or "Steve Copan". Based on the theories of Welder and quite interesting. From what I've seen and read It requires a lot of study and dedication. www.tradertom.com also uses Delta.

I've done some studies into it and it's hard going, uses elliot wave & fibonacci extensions to the n'th degree also

I had a mail on Saturday about this delta lark.

http://www.fsponline-recommends.co....PageID=2098280822&tc=d1OMEc4n&u=omega1&ofid=0

I did a little search on George Marechal, which leads to Jim Sloman, which leads to Welles Wilder, all seems very interesting im sure, I haven't investigated further.

"At 90-years of age, Marechal died without ever revealing how he was able to calculate
market movements with such uncanny accuracy. It appeared his forecasting method
would be lost forever."

So make your own minds up whether the later incarnations are the real deal. A grail search?, for sure, I like those.

By the way, who's this welder chappie

Hi Cosmoglobe,

I use Delta extensively and have done for many years. Slapshot states some wise words about Elliott Wave knowledge. Delta & Elliot Wave are reflections of each other, both mapping out paths dictated by Fibonacci numbers in both time & price. The more detailed understanding of Elliott Wave you have the easier it becomes to understand when and where the delta points will come, rather than the "pin the tail on the donkey" standard deviation approach as explained in the original Wilder Book.

Bez

Bez said:

Hi Cosmoglobe,

I use Delta extensively and have done for many years. Slapshot states some wise words about Elliott Wave knowledge. Delta & Elliot Wave are reflections of each other, both mapping out paths dictated by Fibonacci numbers in both time & price. The more detailed understanding of Elliott Wave you have the easier it becomes to understand when and where the delta points will come, rather than the "pin the tail on the donkey" standard deviation approach as explained in the original Wilder Book.

Bez

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Bez,

Are you using the Delta Society’s solutions or have you solved any delta solutions (currency markets) for yourself? Was just curious if you had any solutions for euro or cable that you could share?

Cheers,

gm

Bez said:

Hi Cosmoglobe,

I use Delta extensively and have done for many years. Slapshot states some wise words about Elliott Wave knowledge. Delta & Elliot Wave are reflections of each other, both mapping out paths dictated by Fibonacci numbers in both time & price. The more detailed understanding of Elliott Wave you have the easier it becomes to understand when and where the delta points will come, rather than the "pin the tail on the donkey" standard deviation approach as explained in the original Wilder Book.

Bez

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Last time I looked at the Delta phenomenon was about 17 years ago when I bought the "secret" book. That was all about predictions based on the movements of the Sun, the Moon and such. I do not recall anything about Fibo numbers.

Anyway, everyone should know that neither Fibo numbers nor astrology can predict market movements. The law of large numbers applies: over the longer term there is a 50-50 chance to be correct.

John

Hi gm,

I am aware of the classic orders on most major markets right from the Super long to the Short Term Delta. However I do not use the Society's standard deviation solutions.
There is two streams of thought with in some delta directors circles, the Standard deviation method or the Fibonacci method. I'm in the Fibonacci camp so my solutions are different to the standard deviation ones. The fibboncci method also hightlighs the fact there are a few more delta time orders that the original delta work did not pick up on.

As for Cable ect you wont be far of fusing the "standard" 10 point solutions from the daily frame upwards, as for the fib method, lucas springs to mind....

cosmoglobe said:

Hi there,
I would be interested in your views on the "Delta Phenomenon- or the hidden order in all the markets" by Willes Welder and his delta-society.

Cosmoglobe

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I consider my self relatively junior to technical analysis coming up to about 4 years now with my interest increasing in the last year or so. Fascinating. The more I learn the deeper and more inquisitive I become about the TA and price movements.

I've read the Delta Phenomenon and it makes you look at the charts in a totally new different way.

The more different ways you look at any problem or object - what ever it is, the more of it's aspects you will see and understand. Hence, that must inevitably be good.

Fibonacci numbers definately work. No doubt in my mind. Another fascination to investigate.

Elliot Wave theory likewise but I haven't had the time or opportunity to delve into as much as I like.

Combine the three plus other TA and the predictive power of these studies is already imo demonstrated on this site by various talented contributors already.

In my humble sincere opinion - It is a must read...

Connie Brown said:

In an uptrend, highs will occur earlier than the cycle period and lows later. In a downtrend, lows will occur earlier than the cycle and highs later.

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That goes against the basic rules of delta.

If a higher Delta frame is up then the High points of the the lesser Delta frame* will be dragged late & the low points will tend to arrive early.

Conversely if a Higher delta frame is down, the low points of lesser Delta frame* will be dragged late & the high points will tend to arrive early.

When the higher Delta frame is up, each high with in the lesser Delta frame* must go higher up to a max of 4 highs in a row.

Again if the higher frame is down, then each low in the lesser delta frame* must go lower up to a max of 4 in a row.


* lesser Delta frame, for example the Intermediate time frame when dealing with the Medium time frame.

Delta like many other methods works great in hindsight on a chart!

The eye of the beholder springs to mind...

All I know is that the delta has kept me on the righ side of the market on both the move down & back up to new highs..(SPX)

If I could have traded backwards all my systems would have been superb :cheesy:

This is the first time I heard about Delta. Would like to learn more. Where can I find more info?

babrevian said:

If I could have traded backwards all my systems would have been superb :cheesy:

This is the first time I heard about Delta. Would like to learn more. Where can I find more info?

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You'll need to hold the 'trading backwards' image in mind if you start trading Delta.

Why is that?

the MTD and ITD are all based around the lunar cycles.
this is consistent.

however, the STD is 4 calendar days, which means the 4 days can fall out of synch with the lunar cycles.
this is NOT consistent.

does anyone reset the 4-day count from the beginning of the full-moon?

Are you talking about one specific stock sector or index trendie?

The Delta periodicity for each of the Delta timeframes varies depending upon which stock sector or index you're using it for.

The use of the lunar cycle is a useful temporal aid to calculation and not to be considered in any sense as a causative effect.

If you're going to get into a serious study of short-term Delta and what actually underlies what Welles originally published (now much superseded) on the longer time frames, you might what to consider breaking the calendar day down into trading hours.

If you're using it for any market or exchange that doesn’t have a discrete number of whole trading hours, such as the US markets, taking the first 90 minutes of the trading day as one hour will assist enormously.

For those thinking of using this on the FX markets, a clue – they don’t really run 24 hours a day. They sleep. You need to find out how many hours the various currency pairs sleep each day and at what time(s). Same with the OTC markets and ‘exchanges’.

Lightning McQueen said:

I had a mail on Saturday about this delta lark.

UK Investment Advice | Red Hot Share Tips | Expert Financial Commentary - FSP Invest

I did a little search on George Marechal, which leads to Jim Sloman, which leads to Welles Wilder, all seems very interesting im sure, I haven't investigated further.

"At 90-years of age, Marechal died without ever revealing how he was able to calculate
market movements with such uncanny accuracy. It appeared his forecasting method
would be lost forever."

So make your own minds up whether the later incarnations are the real deal. A grail search?, for sure, I like those.

By the way, who's this welder chappie

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I've had an e-mail from fsp linked to

Omega Trading System - FSPonline-recommends.co.uk

about an 'improved' system, published by Financial Matrix Ltd. Is this the same system, please?

And does anybody know if it produces results like £350/day?

Seems to be from the same stable as Delta, Market Matrix, Nexus and now Omega.

Omega – end of the line? I doubt it.

I like Steve despite some minor contretemps and at £467 it’s a lot cheaper than the previous MM offering at £3000.

To be brutally fair and honest, there is the germ of truth underlying these systems and it’s based on cycles. But you can work these out for yourself. Just pull up a chart, mark the major lows, intermediate lows, minor lows. Each higher cycle modifies the lower, so if the major cycle is up and the intermediate ‘needs’ to be on a low, the higher cycle will prevent it making as much of a low as it would if it were all by itself.

Better still, go borrow The Delta Phenomenon from your library (ask them to get it if they don’t have it – they have to oblige) and that’ll give you over 100 pages of high-quality glossy colour diagrams and about half a dozen pages that cover the real meat.

The vendors will make a lot more of it and pull in Fibs (even some special, secret ones) and ladle in a bit of jiggery pokery which is based around Support and Resistance and tart it up. All well and good and at this price, probably not a complete rip-off if you don’t want to do all the research yourself, which you can of course – just takes time.

cosmoglobe said:

Hi there,
I would be interested in your views on the "Delta Phenomenon- or the hidden order in all the markets" by Willes Welder and his delta-society.

Cosmoglobe

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Speaking of the Delta phenomenon it is very curious that this recent sell-off happened on a full moon. I may have to reconsider my heavy criticism of such techniques. Or, maybe, too many big players base their actions on the delta phenomenon.

Alex

alexander said:

Speaking of the Delta phenomenon it is very curious that this recent sell-off happened on a full moon. I may have to reconsider my heavy criticism of such techniques. Or, maybe, too many big players base their actions on the delta phenomenon.

Alex

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Would it be statistically more significant if from all the sell-offs and all the full moons, not one of them occurred on the same day?