Social / Mirror / Copy Trading: what are your experiences and views?

Sites like eToro, ZuluTrade and ayondo have been around for a while now, yet they don't get discussed that much here on T2W. Is this because they're all pants and the whole concept of social trading is fundamentally flawed? Or, is it because those that do well out of it are embarrassed by their success because it's the result of someone else's hard work and skill rather than their own?

Have you tried social / mirror / copy trading and, if you have, what's your experience?
Perhaps you're a 'top trader' on one of these sites and you make money from followers?
Have you considered doing it from either angle and decided against it for some reason?
Whatever your experiences are - please share them here!

The idea for this thread was prompted by this post by Tytus_Barnowl and by this UKSpreadBetting interview with Tim Young . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyVqXlid4wc&list=PLnSelbHUB6GQksHdISlsgWj9zZdCD0Ziy&index=7

I have looked into this few years ago, because I am lazy and all for automated trading and I am always looking for new ideas to diversify, so this looks like great idea on paper, but I couldn't find anyone to trust my money to follow...

The problem to me is that I have to see long term evidence those people can trade in all markets cycles and I just couldn't find that history, also volumes were not available and I didn't see some sort of protection either, for example if my account is down let's say 5% for the day, close everything, move to cash and unfollow the offender, in the end, the guy might have been stoned and making a huge mistake...

Not to mention the security of the platform itself, to me to move money to a platform 5-6 digits account, I have to know it is government regulated and insured in my country, so if something happens and the money are gone, I have to have a way to get them back...


bottom line, good idea, but too much risk for me, e.g. I am risking only few percent of my portfolio and here the risk is 100%

A point of view from a 7 month newcomer to trading:

I was briefly interested in a copying service, as all newbies likely are to some degree.
After a day or 2 looking into it I decided not to bother, mainly on the grounds of what happens if these people I copy I go away.. stop trading.. die, etc.. then I am left helpless. I don't like feeling helpless, so I would rather learn to do it myself.

As Quantt points out... the risk is very high also...

timsk said:

Sites like eToro, ZuluTrade and ayondo have been around for a while now, yet they don't get discussed that much here on T2W. Is this because they're all pants and the whole concept of social trading is fundamentally flawed? Or, is it because those that do well out of it are embarrassed by their success because it's the result of someone else's hard work and skill rather than their own?

Have you tried social / mirror / copy trading and, if you have, what's your experience?
Perhaps you're a 'top trader' on one of these sites and you make money from followers?
Have you considered doing it from either angle and decided against it for some reason?
Whatever your experiences are - please share them here!

The idea for this thread was prompted by this post by Tytus_Barnowl and by this UKSpreadBetting interview with Tim Young . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyVqXlid4wc&list=PLnSelbHUB6GQksHdISlsgWj9zZdCD0Ziy&index=7

Click to expand...

Tim Young ???!!! Who is this guy ? as always talking bla bla bla ... and no real account performance) the best way of copytrading is open PAMM account for Investors. why this Tim have no PAMM acc ? ask yourself

FXPIPa said:

Tim Young ???!!! Who is this guy ? as always talking bla bla bla ... and no real account performance) the best way of copytrading is open PAMM account for Investors. why this Tim have no PAMM acc ? ask yourself

Click to expand...

Hi FXPIPa,
Having - or not having - a PAMM account is neither here nor there and not germane to the topic of this thread. As for Tim Young, I'd never heard of him before I stumbled across the series of interviews that UKSpreadBetting conducted with him. However, that neither you nor I know anything about him doesn't invalidate what he says in this video. Clearly, a lot of people will agree with much of what he says, evidenced by the growing numbers of who are gravitating towards social trading. This is complemented by an increasing number of brokers/platforms offering a copy trading facility; the three I mentioned are just the tip of the iceberg. Like it or not, social trading of the kind Mr. Young outlines is growing fast and the purpose of this thread is to highlight its merits and its faults.
Tim.
PS. Tim Young does have a live account on ayondo just as he states in the video.

timsk said:

Hi FXPIPa,
Having - or not having - a PAMM account is neither here nor there and not germane to the topic of this thread. As for Tim Young, I'd never heard of him before I stumbled across the series of interviews that UKSpreadBetting conducted with him. However, that neither you nor I know anything about him doesn't invalidate what he says in this video. Clearly, a lot of people will agree with much of what he says, evidenced by the growing numbers of who are gravitating towards social trading. This is complemented by an increasing number of brokers/platforms offering a copy trading facility; the three I mentioned are just the tip of the iceberg. Like it or not, social trading of the kind Mr. Young outlines is growing fast and the purpose of this thread is to highlight its merits and its faults.
Tim.
PS. Tim Young does have a live account on ayondo just as he states in the video.

Click to expand...

you can find thousands sites like FXCOPY or FXSTAT - there only demomasters and scam broker accounts like FXCH ... WVC ... if there was 1 normal real account with 6 months stable trading everybody could copy it. After this FXPrice will kill that account - because many people same order...and as always price like to go that way - not profit way. Good forex system - is not popular system
And if you open EURUSD, GBPYSD 2008 and compare it with Today Chart you will be in Shock, CopyFX killed volatily of that pairs ... and all idiots making CriptoMainigs..that will falls down soon)
To Copy someone - you must know 100% his method and must sure that this trader is not stupid MartinGaile without SL... this is why Copy not so popular - go to MQL5.com signals. There lots of good and profit accounts - 30 USD per month cost to copy... but for some reason people do not want to copy it.
Once my Friend follow at demo 2 months 1 "Good" trader at some copyfx service site with 8 month profit portfolio, after that we opened Pamm and this trader blo this Pamm in 2 days)))

Chears

timsk said:

Tim Young does have a live account on ayondo just as he states in the video.

Click to expand...

His previous Ayondo account was called FTSETrading - this account got utterly wiped out in August 2015 - when China aggressively devalued the yen.

His "strategy" is to "go long regardless" - because once you get to a nice number of followers he's getting a slice of each of his followers trade commissions regardless if his original trade idea pays off!

His Timtrading Ayondo account had 528 followers on Thursday, and now it has 462 followers - which pretty much says it all for social trading. His account showed -8% first thing this morning;
https://wetrade.ayondo.com/follower/traderprofile/Timtrading

He never ever goes short and if you review his trade history you'll get confirmation of this, he actually confesses in one of those UK spreadbetting videos he is "unable" to go short.

Here is his old "wipeout" account which he doesn't like to show off about... when his account is having a big old drawdown he appears ashen-faced on TipTV, always cheered me up no end





If you follow his trades, or believe any of the vague bull**** he spouts on TipTV or CoreFinance you deserve to lose your shirt.

f2calv said:

His previous Ayondo account was called FTSETrading - this account got utterly wiped out in August 2015 - when China aggressively devalued the yen.

His "strategy" is to "go long regardless" - because once you get to a nice number of followers he's getting a slice of each of his followers trade commissions regardless if his original trade idea pays off!

His Timtrading Ayondo account had 528 followers on Thursday, and now it has 462 followers - which pretty much says it all for social trading. His account showed -8% first thing this morning;
https://wetrade.ayondo.com/follower/traderprofile/Timtrading

He never ever goes short and if you review his trade history you'll get confirmation of this, he actually confesses in one of those UK spreadbetting videos he is "unable" to go short.

Here is his old "wipeout" account which he doesn't like to show off about... when his account is having a big old drawdown he appears ashen-faced on TipTV, always cheered me up no end


If you follow his trades, or believe any of the vague bull**** he spouts on TipTV or CoreFinance you deserve to lose your shirt.

Click to expand...

Very good summary and analysis. Thank you!

He's now down to 388 followers and just hit maximum drawdown of 17% ...more like antisocial trading eh?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I used to try copying the deals and I must admit everything had been quite well untill one day I lost quite a lot. Then I decided to trade on my own.

Trading is not an easy job is a bitter truth. You have to work on your own behalf in order to gain success on the Forex market. You need to develop your own strategy and management plan for your success. Your money is important for yourself and only for yourself, nobody other cares about it. Be confident and be successful. Best of luck!

Copy Trading

The key to copy trading lies in 2 key areas. Firstly, using a broker/platform that permits you to control all aspects of your own following while also filtering out the tat by not permitting certain known shabby practices. Secondly, the total recognition that no trader makes gains all the time and will always have the inevitable draw-down event. I've been a broker for 25 years and seen hundreds of thousands of retail trading accounts and all bar a tiny number all hit the skids eventually. Two decades of watching legendary traders post on forums a story that is not remotely aligned with their true account performance has always been entertaining.

The huge benefit of copy trading on a kosher platform is that firstly all those legendary social media traders can publish their trades live for the world to see and to copy, thus making enormous fees but far more importantly, copy trading openly recognises that traders have winning streaks and a copy trading network publishes live data that allows you to find which traders are on a winning streak at any given moment and copy them.

We all now have to publish the % of losers, let's say that's around 70%, this suggests that 30% of traders are winning but people seem to think it is the same 30% but it isn't. That 30% of winners is a really fluid part of the client base and what copy trading permits is to see at any given moment in time who they are. They could be, and often are, the worst traders. Mad gamblers taking big risks and over trading but they've hit the market at a time when their particular crazy trading is aligned with the market. They are an awful trader but that's not important. What's important is that they are on a roll and you can follow them for a few days, grab a few percent and bail before they blow up.

You don't invest in copy traders. You will lose. All traders wipe out, most within a few months, others take years. You don't take your hard earned money and follow these traders as if they are long term investors. You trade these traders. You know what to look for, you can see that they are bad traders, you know they will blow up but you can see that their style is hitting big returns while the market is in its current trend and you know how to spot when the turn is coming in. Punt the punters and it is a cracking product offering good returns. Think that you just allocate your hard earned to some random punter to look after like your gin sodden IFA and you're going to get knocked out of the park.

Every kind of copytrading is affected by survivorship bias.

Traders show their luckiest stuff.
Brokers show their luckiest stuff.
This 2 effects combined are extremely toxic for investors.

If you find a real trader you make money on etoro zulu myfxbook mql darwinex everywhere.

The problem is that in 99.9% of cases you are dealing with a lucky monkey, maybe honest maybe charlatan.
A lucky trackrecord that would turn to random walk in the future.