Do I have a chance in a trading career?

Hi all,

I am new to this forum so hi everyone!

I am researching and have been for some time into becoming a trader for an investment bank and would like some answers / opinions!

I am 19 years old and left school half way through my AS levels due to getting an apprenticeship in accounting, the position which I was in had me doing work which would normally be for a part qualified accountant, I gained some great experience in that role and was there for over 2 years. I have been working in treasury back office for a large company for 1 year now and am AAT level 4 qualified, I am looking into doing a degree in accounting and finance at northumbria university then turning it into a masters either at Cambridge or Oxford university (as long as I get a first at Northumbria).

I will be roughly 23years old by this time with 3 years work experience and a masters degree, in either finance and accounting or economics.

How big or small is my chance of getting into an investment bank / getting considered at an investment bank?

Is there anything I can do to enlarge my chances?

All opinions will be great!

Thanks,

Mark.

To try and answer on this question by yourself, I highly recommend reading "Wall Street Oasis" and "Mergers and Inquisitions".

They are the top results if you google them and you will know that you got it right, when you visit them.

In short: coming from target school and having good background experience, should definitely help you. But the war will be won by constant and wide networking and having easy going, not whining personality.

everyone have chance!
you have to work hard

How deep..

mkm said:

Hi all,

I am new to this forum so hi everyone!

I am researching and have been for some time into becoming a trader for an investment bank and would like some answers / opinions!

I am 19 years old and left school half way through my AS levels due to getting an apprenticeship in accounting, the position which I was in had me doing work which would normally be for a part qualified accountant, I gained some great experience in that role and was there for over 2 years. I have been working in treasury back office for a large company for 1 year now and am AAT level 4 qualified, I am looking into doing a degree in accounting and finance at northumbria university then turning it into a masters either at Cambridge or Oxford university (as long as I get a first at Northumbria).

I will be roughly 23years old by this time with 3 years work experience and a masters degree, in either finance and accounting or economics.

How big or small is my chance of getting into an investment bank / getting considered at an investment bank?

Is there anything I can do to enlarge my chances?

All opinions will be great!

Thanks,

Mark.

Click to expand...

Mark, IB in this country is relatively simple. The CV sifts are extremely aggressive and networking will do little to help you, especially as of the last 5 years. Even a Partner can only do an HR referral - you still need to have the right ticks especially when it comes to academia.

You need to get it right from a young age and you are still young. You've done good stuff so far, not really super applicable to IB, but at least you'll have some grounding in a business environment.

Be very very wary of people telling you x, y, z is good work when they don't and have never worked in London IB. I for one don't agree with their closed shop approach, but it is what it is and you need to jump through their academic hoops and maybe even intern for one after that.

The dirty truth is you'll need almost all As in your A/AS-levels and a quantitative postgrad. If you can do a quantitative focussed MSc at Cambridge or Oxford then your chances are very good.

Very very little is known about IB on these forums, most are retail or prop traders - you are better off in the studentroom forums where a couple of IB people actually post on the specialised job board there. Here - http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=94 . You can learn much of the lingo/abbreviations/acronyms you will be required to know to impress at interview level. You will need to know this stuff.

Do note the pay isn't great these days and they will work you to death (!)... don't forget hedge funds too.

random12345 said:

Mark, IB in this country is relatively simple. The CV sifts are extremely aggressive and networking will do little to help you, especially as of the last 5 years. Even a Partner can only do an HR referral - you still need to have the right ticks especially when it comes to academia.

You need to get it right from a young age and you are still young. You've done good stuff so far, not really super applicable to IB, but at least you'll have some grounding in a business environment.

Be very very wary of people telling you x, y, z is good work when they don't and have never worked in London IB. I for one don't agree with their closed shop approach, but it is what it is and you need to jump through their academic hoops and maybe even intern for one after that.

The dirty truth is you'll need almost all As in your A/AS-levels and a quantitative postgrad. If you can do a quantitative focussed MSc at Cambridge or Oxford then your chances are very good.

Very very little is known about IB on these forums, most are retail or prop traders - you are better off in the studentroom forums where a couple of IB people actually post on the specialised job board there. Here - http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=94 . You can learn much of the lingo/abbreviations/acronyms you will be required to know to impress at interview level. You will need to know this stuff.

Do note the pay isn't great these days and they will work you to death (!)... don't forget hedge funds too.

Click to expand...

yeah all that plus make sure you get some internships in your Uni holidays. It's tough but there is soo much talent out there due to head count reductions.

Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on posting such a great thread. I am a firm believer that where one ends up depends on what the person is made of more than what they do exactly. There is nothing you cannot do, if you put your mind to it and decide never to give up until it is a reality. By default, the path will be placed in front of you if your heart is in the journey. I believe you certainly have a good chance at making your dream as a trader a reality. You seem to have a great plan in place, and you are working your plan to the best of your ability. Just stay the course and Carpe Diem!

I'd ask someone who actually works as a trader for an IB (gamma jammer et al.) most guys here have never worked as traders for IB.

I'd start trading now and keep a record of how you do. Then you will have something real to discuss in the interview

Losses are sure anyway. What other media are you referring to?

Entry to an IB at your level essentially means getting taken on for the grad scheme. Nothing wrong with being a bit older and with a bit more life experience than the guys you'll be up against as you can show that you really want it, but be realistic about how competitive it is, even in this climate of reduced bonuses and banker bashing.

Most of those taken on will be straight-A students through GCSE and A-levels and 1st or 2:1s from a Russell Group uni in a quantitative subject, although most degrees from Oxbridge will get you in. Most will also have done internships through summer holidays etc in the industry. Most will also have a strong hinterland - county level sports, university or school team captains, that kind of thing.

As things stand right now, with a degree in Accountancy and Finance (which is regarded as a vocational degree and is not as desirable as a 'hard' quant subject) and from an ex-Poly you don't stand much of a chance. If you get a First, and if you can use that to get onto a quanty Masters course at Oxbridge, then things start to look brighter. You'll need to work on the other stuff too: internships and a high level of achievement outside of school and work.

The other option worth thinking about is getting the academic side squared away and then joining one of the major accountancy firms for ACA. That should be relatively easy given your background. Many of the IBs then recruit into research from newly qualified ACAs (there are some recruitment firms that specialise in just that, Greenwich Associates for example). OK, it's not trading, but it's an interesting and well paid role in its own right and while it's unlikely you'd get to move to the trading side in an IB, from there it's a fairly well trodden path into a buy-side role in a hedge fund or as a long-only manager.

Good luck.

Hi Mark,
Two great posts from random12345 and Jack o'Clubs respectively - both of whom offer top notch advice.

If you've not yet seen it, check out this FAQ as there might be a few helpful pointers there too, not least the links in post #3: How Do I get a Job Trading?
Good luck!
Tim.

So basically your parents should decide for you that you will be an IB starting from mid-school? Otherwise I don't see how it is possible to make correct choices along the way and stay focused..

DitterPD said:

So basically your parents should decide for you that you will be an IB starting from mid-school? Otherwise I don't see how it is possible to make correct choices along the way and stay focused..

Click to expand...

It's possible to make this decision in your mid 20s so long as you have good grades and can take a quant-based Masters. I've known many people who have done this who hadn't made their mind up while at school. In fact IB is often a final year of Uni type decision.

Getting hired up to around 32 years old as an associate was not uncommon when I left.

But yes, if you don't have good school grades and can't retake them then you're screwed, basically.

Jack o'Clubs said:

[...] be realistic about how competitive it is, even in this climate of reduced bonuses and banker bashing.

Click to expand...

Doesn't this apply to the finance industry as a whole and not just IB? All I have encountered since graduating last summer is a crazy level of competition for all types of finance jobs. It's making me doubt my choice of career, haha.

Is that in Canada? What type of jobs have you been applying for & what's your background?

spreader_legger said:

Is that in Canada? What type of jobs have you been applying for

Click to expand...

Yes, Canada.

To generalize, I'd say mostly middle- and back-office roles. Front office is not for me.

& what's your background?

Click to expand...

Went to school for Finance. No work exp. in the finance industry... that's probably what's been hurting me most.

Then again, how do you get in w/out exp. when they want you to have exp. already? So it goes. Reality of today's job market if you're freshly minted, I guess.

Many actually used to try & get into middle and back office experience to try and get into front office jobs (at least that used to be the case in London) not sure how they viewed this at the time - but it did seem to work for the likes of Nick Leeson

Personally I have never seen the appeal of such jobs. If you're looking for such jobs try and see the core skill requirement I.e fast typing speed, basic accounts (lots of practical courses available in this field) or something IT related. Most will depend on your character and attitude shown during the interview stage. If they want you & you're a good fit they'll choose you. Lack of experience is often just used as an excuse.

PS don't get offended, but what are you doing as moderator to a trading site when all you're interested in is admin?

VielGeld said:

Doesn't this apply to the finance industry as a whole and not just IB? All I have encountered since graduating last summer is a crazy level of competition for all types of finance jobs. It's making me doubt my choice of career, haha.

Click to expand...

What do you mean by the finance industry Viel? There are plenty of jobs at the professional services firms that don't require experience.

PwC in London had 2 grad or school leaver intakes a year for a huge range of jobs, each one with separate intakes. I mean, they're all boring of course, but that's the finance industry for you.

Hmm... Perhaps it's Montreal in general (yes, I'm from Montreal). I usually hear a lot more about opportunities in Toronto or other big Canadian cities. Here it seems more focused on the big banks, big financial institutions and pension funds, of which there aren't many. At least, as far as know. With four universities in the city and not many positions, I've been getting the idea it's not the best city to be in for a job in finance at the entry-level position.

But if you're interested in trading, then there are quite a few prop firms, on the other hand. I've actually been told on interviews here that I'm one of the few with actual trading exp., haha.

spreader_legger said:

PS don't get offended, but what are you doing as moderator to a trading site when all you're interested in is admin?

Click to expand...

No offence taken.

Trading was my initial interest, of course. It's just after years of going nowhere in my own account despite some minor success and interviewing for a couple prop firms + meeting some traders... I ain't sure being a full-time trader is for me. Not getting paid initially and stressing out every day to just be profitable, then trying to make a living out of that isn't as appealing as it once used to be. Plus you're in front of a monitor all day and not terribly active either.

Maybe I'm feeling down about it for no reason, but it doesn't feel like I'm getting the feedback necessary to keep me going.

So -- the idea is to get indirect/direct investment/trading exp. while on the job. That honestly sounds a lot better to me than going 6 months without food and possibly not going anywhere.

-----------

Anyway, thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.

And apologies to the OP if I'm derailing. I can take this to another thread if that's the case. I wouldn't want to make this thread about me!