Orderflow Analytics any experience?

http://www.orderflowanalytics.com/
They look like a scam to me, wanting you to pay them some $2500 to learn to use the software before you even pay for the software.
Strange.
Anyone had any experience?
Of course the indicators and algorithms look great on the video.
But then once you waste your money and see they have the same result as a moving average then what?

hello Dr, i took there free trial and was impressed, so instead of signing up for course i decided to take the offer of $175 for another month just to make sure it suited my style.. i am into my 3rd week and i have to say the guy running it seems to make money most days yes he has a few bad days but thats trading, but all in all i am very happy.
the best thing is its using price action and has no indicators, which is verty cool, so i would at least recommend taking the free trial.

regards

daza

They have no free trial so wtf are you talking about?
I emailed them to even pay for them and all I got was some stupid email telling me how I MUST attend the bootcamp course for $2500 and asking for my phone number with 100 so called testimony's from people saying its so great.
Its on their webpage $99 lease $1200 lifetime lease so what are you talking about with $175?

Looks like it is another variant of MarketDelta. It should be pointed out that what these products do is look at the count of contracts traded at bid and at ask at each price level. That is "half" of the order flow story. The other "half" is what is going on with limit orders in the order book.

Yeah it probably is, but seems to have some additional tools that may make it easier and quicker to make determinations.
I mean $99 to try isn't to bad just to see if it helps.
But of course thats if you can even buy it they send you an email asking for your phone number telling you they will contact you.
I don't like that its just so they can try and manipulate you with pressure sales tactics.
To me it looks like they are using the indicators and tools to try and sell training and mentoring doing it in a sly manner.

Dr_Jones said:

To me it looks like they are using the indicators and tools to try and sell training and mentoring doing it in a sly manner.

Click to expand...

Could well be the case.

Hey Dr,, calm down, no need to be so foul mouthed,,,FGS.
yes they do do a trial but its not on site you need to contact george and he does an interview, then you can arrange a trial

and i am sorry the cost was not $175 it was £175 )from UK) my mistake, it here under OFA for newbies,,,http://www.orderflowanalytics.com/OFA_Home.aspx..

why oh why do people ask for a reply on stuff then knock you down when you give one,, next time find out your self

oh and believe me its nothing like crappy market delta as its not time based or range or tick or any thing like that,, as i said i have not purchased it yet as i am still evaluating, but just wanted to give an honest opion to you questions only to be knocked down,, why does any one bother


regarding a scam and them selling a course to use there software,, well i asked them the same question, i do not want to be tied to a peice of software, and there reply was, the software is there to help you learn but more more important to help you make money while learning,, so i asked will i learn how to trade with out it, and they said yes but that the apprentice program for 5k,, a lot of cash i know,, thats why i am taking my time to evaluate it before commiting any money.

i am sure i will now get some reply saying ' i must be an affiliate to them or crap like that, so think what you like, but i only found them the week before xmas and am not trying to sell any thing,, just giving my opion like you requested from people, as you did ask''''anyone had any experience?'''''

and i never gave a phone number, just used skype or yahoo IM.



kind regards

daza

I am calm I didn't say anything bad I just couldn't understand what you meant by $175 when its $99.
And if you paid 175 pounds geeeez thats like $282 whats with that?
It has nothing this doesn't have.
http://www.fin-alg.com/marketbalance.html
And it has to be based on a volume or range chart, to say its not is naive, a chart has to be based on something.
The COT number above it is just the difference between buys and sells like delta.
They are using the so called 'secret' 'special' tools to sell mentoring for 5k.
I cant remember the last time I needed to be 'Interviewed' to buy something.
No doubt its to put high pressure sales tactics on newbies who know no better.

like i said i am not using the indicators for $99 i am in the room for a month ie the newbie offer,, that was at the time £175 or $250

as far as market balance or delta , its nothing like delta, it uses rotation to draw its bars not time range or volume,, you could say its a complex point and figyre chart,, i have been using market delta for 3 years and there is nothing like this on there,, but again for me its not about the software, as i do not want to be tied to software, for me it was learning what the software looks at and appying that to my own trading,, i hate the the idea of buying a peice of software cos its only as good as the back up support and if they go bust you are left with some thing that may not work in the future,, no for me its about understanding what the software looks at and they do teach that but only in the 5 k course,, the cot number above is not like the delta you see in irt or market delta and is no the differance between buys and sells. as its based on time and sales and the Depth of market so how can it be!!.. but i agree with you all these vendors are selling software to sell courses, but how else does one learn,, ?? other than screen time.. plus as i said i have only paid for a month in the room so i can evaluate the method( not the software) and so far its been very good, dare i say best i have seen, does that mean i am buying it???? hell no.. i will take a few more months in the room first to see if it hold water over a larger sample size.. but so far the moderator is making some great calls and even better the members seem to be as well which is promising,, and some of the memebrs have just taken the boot camp course,, again i am not selling any thing here, but just responding to you first post for any one with any experience with this company and i have had so i am just saying what i have seen,, if that offends then sorry.


as far as 'Interviewed' it was more of a demo but the guy george did say that they would only let people that meet there criteia sale pitch i know but it worked,,

and i have been in room now for 4 weeks now and i have had no high pressure sales tactics at all, in fact they give a lot in the room knowing i am there and not a course member,,

i have to say its been the most fun time i have spent in a room. but may not be for evry one..
the only down side i have seen is the moderator will add to a trade thats going against him, but only at places where he expects it to turn,, however there are member there that are using it to scalp for 2 ticks and other that are going for 3 to 5 points so as far as i can tell it can be used to suit many styles,, time will tell

regards
daza

Extensize discussion on this matter here.......

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/6/order-flow-analytics-7173-10.html

Ninjatrader will drop bid/ask data ocassionally throughout the day due to the recent CME data output increase, so anyone trying to do bid/ask differential work (like OFA software) will have problems.

thats ok they do not use ninja trader,, there software is a direct link to the data feed and not via ninja however that is a option but they do not recommend it,,thay only use ninja when one wants to uise there trade tracker, which would be linked to the ninja DOM.

Daza said:

thats ok they do not use ninja trader,, there software is a direct link to the data feed and not via ninja however that is a option but they do not recommend it,,

Click to expand...

The main problem if you read the other discussions is that no one at either NT or Zenfire (Rithmic) has yet found out what is causing the data drops. Even Rithmic feed users connected to Investor R/T on a few ocassions were getting some data drops (where those with DTN.IQ feed connected to Investor RT were not for bid/ask data work).

Broker supplied feeds do not have ticker plants in the same fashion as like a DTN.IQ feed......so once the broker sends the feed off to whatever application you are using to collect the realtime data, there is no historical lookback capability (to correct data errors).

not sure i understand what differance that makes,,, if trading in real time then no need for historical data?,Right,, other than lokking for long term S/R which they use esignal or TS for... any i am only saying what i see and hear in the room so please make your own mind up.. and i am aware they are adapting it to run on IQ feed and also other markets as well, plus i have been using iq feed and zenfire for 2 years now and i see no differance in data, in fact zenfire does seem faster at times. and as far as having data drops it must be there bandwidth as i have had no such issues.. thats not to say that iq feed is bad as i love there data in fact i run iq on TS as its way better than TS own data.
again my own point of view from my own experience using both feeds, but thats still does not change the fact that what i have been seeing has been working,, data drop or not,, and is by far better than any kind of delta divergence , that is always late and after the fact, DB seems to be having very good trades with very small stops and is not nwaiting for any kind of lagging confiramtion like delta divergence or red bar green bar,, its more a case of reading the order flow and undrstanding whats going on.. anyway i have gone on way to much and its even boring me now....

regards
daza

Again, if you at all read the other extensive discussions you will see there is definitely a TECHNICAL issue causing data drops with NT and/or Zenfire feed. The NT/Zenfire bid/ask daily data runs are NOT matching very robust FCM server side uncoalesced data feeds used for comparison purposes.

Of course this information is about a techical issue with the feed/application and not at all about methodologies......that is a completely separate issue. I have tracked Cumulative Delta and bid/ask differential now for 7 years, so I rely on very robust bid/ask data runs for all my futures trading.....I currently am not able to use the NT/Zenfire feed for bid/ask work.....sad to day.

I know exactly why OFA is looking to move over to DTN.IQ feed......that is a very smart move in the right direction imo.

FT, i checked the 2 feeds out on your chart /trade set up and saw no difference in how the bars closed or opened. All i am saying here is what ever they are doing works and makes money, as an out sider looking in ( from there room) i am seeing things i never saw before so for me so far its a 9 out of 10,,and i have not even taken course yet, may not as well, time will tell as i want to see consistency from the method. why fix what is not broken.Like you db claims he has done many years of testing data from iq to TT to esignal to TS and he still claims zenfire gives him what he needs and that seems to work for him and others in the room..

Where bars open or close has nothing to do with CUMULATIVE DELTA BID/ASK tracking......again, this is about the PARSED volume data ONLY while tracking the BID/ASK DIFFERENTIAL. I FULLY AGREE tracking the order flow during the day is a very robust way to trade the markets (the EXACT way I have traded now for many years....actually, the ONLY method I use to trade futures).

The fact remains as traders, we MUST make sure the data information we pay attention to realtime is robust and accurate......that is just common sense. So any trader not wanting to make sure there data is correct is rather odd to me? Until you properly verify daily bid/ask data runs that MANY have found to contain issues, then you are setting yourself up for potential problems as you analyze improper indications while looking for trade set ups....no thanks! It is very prudent to make sure what you are basing your trade decisions off each day is formulated from proper data.....very simple.

Again, the methodology may be just fine.....just make darn sure your data inputs for your methodology are correct.


CHEERS and have an EXCELLENT weekend!

well its a case of who to believe, the data vendors, or people like you and DB that claim to have research on there data,, I have no reason not to believe you or DB, I only know like you DB claims to have been using zenfire and is making money,, he must be dong something right, as I see it working for him. As for you and other people issues with data that’s for them to sort out,, I can only say from my own point of view my zenfire data seems no different than that of IQ, and I se no issue that DB is having in the room,,, if making money is a concern then yes stay away but hey that’s what we all here for right??

Ask DB and he claims that he has run zenfire next to all the major data feeds like TT,TS Esignal IQFeed, and has come to the conclusion that zenfire is best for what he is doing,, and at this point I have no reason not to believe him as I have never had problems with zenfire..

But that being said I have never had an issue with IQ feed

As far as bars closing of course it makes a difference as on a delta bar with the volume breakdown what may be a doji looking candle on the cum delta could well be a up or down bar depending on data so the open /close of a renko bar could change ones out come if the 2 data feeds where way off,, but as I have said I have never seen that much difference in the data..


But the issue of data is way off topic this is about the service from OFA and for me its well worth a look

Daza,

I have recently taken an interest in investigating the nuances of delta and its creation for relatively short term trading.

I run my CQG system side by side with a Zenfire driven system and comparing the T&S many trades on Zenfire that should be bids are asks or vice versa. I can see exactly why and when it happens and is almost always when the bid\ask flips and the next trade on a price point is say an ask where it was a bid on the last trade. It corrects as soon as a new print is made at the new bid. I see this on size filtered T&S but almost certainly it happens on all trades.

Data used is not only pertinent but possibly the most important element of this type of analysis and IMO is prerequisite for consideration of any Bid\Ask methods.

CQG does not make what appears to be an assumption based on what it thinks is a logical sequence as trades are tagged bid\ask according to how they traded. Other than that anomaly, Zenfire is an excellent feed.

If bid\ask trades are being used for the creation of delta then IMO to have trades allocated to the wrong side has the potential of misleading and possibly to the point of rendering the analytic process extremely counter productive.

I have not run IQ DTN alongside CQG but find it somewhat concerning that the opinion appears to be that Zenfire and IQ DTN are comparable. Any comments on recorded accuracy (Bid\Ask trades) would be appreciated.

No......DTN.IQ feed is very different than Zenfire daily BID/ASK data runs. DTN.IQ feed MATCHES a very robust higher end feed I use for other trading operations. It is the broker supplied feeds that are frequently showing data drops for BID/ASK data work (Zenfire, Rithmic, Transact, OEC, etc)....of course these broker feeds are unlike DTN.IQ or CQG who have their own ticker plants and provide a much more robust feed WITH historical look back capability (for the bid/ask volume data).

FulcrumTrader said:

No......DTN.IQ feed is very different than Zenfire daily BID/ASK data runs. DTN.IQ feed MATCHES a very robust higher end feed I use for other trading operations. It is the broker supplied feeds that are frequently showing data drops for BID/ASK data work (Zenfire, Rithmic, Transact, OEC, etc)....of course these broker feeds are unlike DTN.IQ or CQG who have their own ticker plants and provide a much more robust feed WITH historical look back capability (for the bid/ask volume data).

Click to expand...

Thank you. That is exactly want I wanted to know. For a broker supplied feed, Zenfire is excellent for the nil price but has limitations with delta creation.

FT, I will reply on your other thread.

Sorry Daza but no intent to hijack your thread or take it off course. However I truly believe that this type of analysis requires very accurate inputs. Zenfire is stunningly good at producing exactly the same charts as I pay big money for even to time based volume being comparable. If however accurate differentiation of bid\ask is required then bear in mind that every incorrect print is double jeopardy as it subtracts from where it should be plus adds to where it doesn't belong.