Anyone still uses James16 Price Action?

From my perspective, it looks like it is a 50/50 bet anytime it occurs, especially pin bars.

Pin-bar cliffs do not count. Cause really, no retail trader will catch that. Perhaps if you were trading economic figures.

Re Anyone still uses James16 Price Action

I think James 16 is now a dinosaur on price action - and also very expensive, many people have refined the method since then and made it better. If you want to learn more about price action trading, then I recommend you go have a look at www.theforexguy.com

I see, well I intentionally meant the whole price action gig in general. I do not believe in it, they are not natural and they are more lagging then moving averages.

Calling Planet Earth.....

IzaIza said:

I see, well I intentionally meant the whole price action gig in general. I do not believe in it, they are not natural and they are more lagging then moving averages.

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I take it that English is not your first language? Price action does not lag ! I think you mean that moving averages lag price action?
Pin bars do work-well they do for me -but it's where they occur along with other factors that determine whether or not you act upon them. Even then such set ups fail since it is in the nature of trading that nothing is 100% accurate. If it was, this trading malarky would be easy, we would all win and the market would thus collapse. Invariably, it is the human in the machine that produces more losers than winners in the world of trading. There is no easy way despite what guru's, and other peddlers of easy riches via trading, tell you.
Ho-hum, I keep trying to stay away from T2W but feel compelled to write a rebuttal to what I consider to be bollox

Having proper grammer does not entail anything about trading.

The reason why I say it is lagging because you must wait for confirmation. You are not trading price action if you are not looking for the confirmation. I currently use a strategy of trading where I can sometimes forecast when and where the price will close and I have the best entry at the top of the pin bar.

There are many types of price action as well. Some I firmly believe are better than others. Wick shadows and break outs.

Something like bearish engulfment or bullish engulfment, pin bars, and patterns are just not reliable.

But I'm assuming he taught a little bit more than that in his private room(s).

Only those who subscribed (not me) would know for sure.

PA is a leading indicator. Whether you wait for confirmation or not is surely a question of how aggressive as a trader you wish to be.

Agreed some sorts of PA are more effective than other sorts, but the ones mentioned can be effective when taking into consideration other things.


IIRC, James16 never ever taught people to trade on pinbars alone, and neither did Trader_Dante.

Lagging and trading strategy are two different things. What you mention about waiting for confirmation is trading strategy but the price asction itself is not lagging.

What a load of rubbish. If price action isn't lagging then can you trade without looking at previous price levels. If you trade a 5 minute chart then the previous candle is lagging. The only element to price that isn't lagging is order flow. Are people really this naive to believe that it's any different

IzaIza said:

From my perspective, it looks like it is a 50/50 bet anytime it occurs, especially pin bars.

Pin-bar cliffs do not count. Cause really, no retail trader will catch that. Perhaps if you were trading economic figures.

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James 16 and Trader_dante helped me a lot a few years back ...........they are pretty good guys and yes the forum was ($80 a month in my day ?) relatively expensive but was worth a few months for me as I was learning a lot from some of the lead traders there...........

havnt been there for years but don't throw those guys out without checking it for yourself

jees they are diamonds compared to most S*it out there

N

Tera said:

What a load of rubbish. If price action isn't lagging then can you trade without looking at previous price levels. If you trade a 5 minute chart then the previous candle is lagging. The only element to price that isn't lagging is order flow. Are people really this naive to believe that it's any different

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Price does not lag -you are talking about past price action, Indicators lag -think about it. But neither belief will help you since what price does next is always a gamble -how you handle the trade is what counts including what is inside (sic) your head,

NVP said:

James 16 and Trader_dante helped me a lot a few years back ...........they are pretty good guys and yes the forum was ($80 a month in my day ?) relatively expensive but was worth a few months for me as I was learning a lot from some of the lead traders there...........

havnt been there for years but don't throw those guys out without checking it for yourself

jees they are diamonds compared to most S*it out there

N

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The FREE section thread is good enough. You can vary approaches using material learnt on the public thread such as trading off the daily close or the usual support/resistance approaches. The thing is you take material and mould it to your own needs and comfort level. It works for me and thats all that matters but it took me a long time -especially the psychological bit,

Didn't Dante admit that he started his James16 related threads on T2W teaching people about pin bars when he wasn't making any money himself?

neil said:

Price does not lag -you are talking about past price action, Indicators lag -think about it. But neither belief will help you since what price does next is always a gamble -how you handle the trade is what counts including what is inside (sic) your head,

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Hi Neil

Think about it Neil

Price action ( not structure ) depends on HH's and HL's - or opposite

So if you just trade on PA - price alone - you will have lagging - even on a 5 second tick chart - although a tick chart and a one min chart have less PA lag than a 15 min or 1 hour chart.

Even Order flow is not perfect

The main trick now is putting in large false orders just above current price - or below it and then when price is near that level - cancel them.

Price structure and time I find is better than price in isolation

That's why for real accuracy you cannot trade on naked charts

With regards to trading without charts - like a well known professor - just purely on time and price every 15 mins also as flaws

Plus add in manipulation and game play - Price can be false - just for a minute or a period of time - to spark off stops etc etc

I think gameplay and manipulation theory is as important in FX trading as pure technical analysis - but the industry is hardly going to promote what I am saying ;-)


Regards


F

Price action for me includes several things melded together, including chart action, trades printing off, and at what price and buy/sell pressures and whether they result in momentum or not at certain key levels.
It's a combination, like driving it requires a bit of multi-tasking analysis, its integration, responding to a dynamic situation and executing decisions.
But then I rarely trade FX, it's not got the same high probability of consistent profitability as US stocks do.

DionysusToast said:

Didn't Dante admit that he started his James16 related threads on T2W teaching people about pin bars when he wasn't making any money himself?

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I remember him being pretty humble and stating that he was slowly getting into profit.................the memory is dim these days ............have enough trouble remembering where I live .........

N

montmorencyt2w said:

But I'm assuming he taught a little bit more than that in his private room(s).

Only those who subscribed (not me) would know for sure.

PA is a leading indicator. Whether you wait for confirmation or not is surely a question of how aggressive as a trader you wish to be.

Agreed some sorts of PA are more effective than other sorts, but the ones mentioned can be effective when taking into consideration other things.


IIRC, James16 never ever taught people to trade on pinbars alone, and neither did Trader_Dante.

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Correct - trade every pin bar and you will lose money. Context matters - it works for me and I have never paid for any courses. I think I must have bought the usual books eg.Pring etc.

Pin bars are nonsense

Markets turn all the time.

A pin bar gets generated because of the time the reversal occurs - depending on how your chart is set up, change the time frame a few mins either way and the pin bar disappears and the revesal is now across 2 more "normal looking" candlesticks.

It's mostly an optical illusion.

DionysusToast said:

Pin bars are nonsense

Markets turn all the time.

A pin bar gets generated because of the time the reversal occurs - depending on how your chart is set up, change the time frame a few mins either way and the pin bar disappears and the revesal is now across 2 more "normal looking" candlesticks.

It's mostly an optical illusion.

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Well I am not vending anything but each to their own -whatever works for the individual trader is good -yes

neil said:

Well I am not vending anything but each to their own -whatever works for the individual trader is good -yes

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Neil - If you feel I am trying to sell something in these posts - report the posts.

If you cannot argue your point, consider the merits of silent introspection as apposed to taking sideswipes about things that are not relevant to the discussion.

Where the market has been is relevant. Charts show this very well, although I think volume profiles on charts add a dimension of extra information about who may still be positioned at certain prices and where stops may exist.

Most candlestick analysis is flawed. That's because the markets move organically, not in time spliced increments. Reading so much into OHLC is flawed because a quick change of timeframe tells you a completely different story for the same action in the same market.

We seem to have discussions based on the premise that all things work until proven otherwise. The argument "to each his own" basically means we should forgo discussions and not back up our points.

Why WOULD pin bars on a certain timeframe chart be any better an indicator of a reversal than another reversal that didn't have OHLC aligned such that a tail was formed? Same thing happened at the end of the day....

Here is a current 4 hour chart of Crude Jan 15 on NYMEX.



Then we change the timeframe and the pin bar disappears



Then we do the same again and the bottom reversal suddenly turns into a pin bar



And this was the first chart I looked at.

How can the open/close/high/low of a candle really tell you anything when a simple change in timeframe changes the picture entirely? Of course, it doesn't

What the chart does tell you - where it's been & where the major turns were.

You can make a science of it if you want but to be honest but looking at a chart from my perspective is a hell of a lot simpler.

And the funny thing is - you bring the whole "vendor" thing into the argument when this candlestick thing is one of the greatest pieces of retail trading vendor BS in existence.

DionysusToast said:

...Pin bars are nonsense.....

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Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't matter really. For those inclined they give a reason to trade and it's how you manage that trade that's much more important than what prompted you to enter in the first place.

My experience with pin bars in the guise of hammers or shooting stars (as the potential swing low/high points in the retracements I trade) is enough to have me entering with a double position. I luv 'em